Monday, July 26, 2010

who is the GOAT producer?




this is something that is constantly debated on message boards, with my friends, and probably everywhere. to me, the beat is everything in a song. i have my favorites, we all do. but i'm curious what "the people" think. i'm sure there are a handfull that we all will mention, so i'll post 10 nominees, and let's see if we can agree on a winner. i'm only doing this, because i am bored. as fuck. and i think it's a great conversation starter. so, while a post of this magnitude probably deserves more time and planning, i'm just upping the shit for fun.

the criteria would be
- influence on the culture
- catalog strength
- creativity/ingenuity

...and the nominees are..
*cues up ridiculous VMA style montage*

- dilla
- rza
- pete rock
- dj premiere
- dr. dre
- kanye west
- just blaze
- alchemist
- madlib
- q-tip
(apologies to Large Professor, 9th wonder, the bomb squad, marley marl, timbaland, the neptunes,dan the automator, buckwild, and whoever else you want to add to the "honorable mention" list)

so those are my nominees. what do you think? i'll go ahead and say that dilla is my favorite producer. "donuts" is a fucking religion to me and mine. my son cut his teeth to that shit. dilla has beats that were just sitting on his hard drive that ended up surfacing after his untimely passing that would make other producers want to retire. and as far as influence? pshhh.. this dude is your favorite producer's favorite producer. not to mention that Jd pretty much helped father the neo-soul era in r&b. he came into an era dominated by bubble gum shit and helped erykah and d'angelo change the r&b game. he pretty much made it so that someone like boyz II men had to retire for awhile. so yes, dilla is my favorite, but we are talking the GOAT (see what i did there?)but i will say that he doesn't have quite the catolog that my pick for the champ does. if i had to pick the best ever, i have to go with the RZA. game changer? check. 36 chambers made everyone re-evaluate their style. not to mention, this is what made me fall in love with hip-hop. i thought i was the 10th member of the wu. i remember hanging out on the railroad tracks in my timberland hoodie, smoking blunts and chewing on a twig, all thanks to the abbot.enough about that. rza dropped the first "sped up soul sample" joint i can recall (for heaven's sake.. track 3, disk 1 on wu-tang forever.. *pushes glasses up on nose, nerd style*)and catalog? cut it out. one could argue that over the course of a few years, he left his mark on double digit classics. think about it... 36, ironman, liquid swords, tical, OBFCL, bob digi, wu forever, return to the 36, supreme clientele, gravediggaz.. i could go on. i tihnk based on the criteria i am basing this whole shit off of, you can't front on the rza. changed the game. did it in a way that had never been done (or at least furthered the art form) and that resulted in a fucking empire and a catalog that was "nuthin to fuck with"..

so, what are your thoughts? who's your pick? do you hate my list? (if so, start your own blog,make your own list, and stfu) make your case. make me a cd and change my mind if you disagree. and knowrisk, you can't vote for yourself.

note- if this doesn't generate a good conversation, i'll be pretty bummed, and will prob just shelve the post altogether. peace.

70 comments:

  1. Nice list and one helluvah topic. I think I can be the GOAT producer if you give me a couple years. Wait, what ? Nevermind. Let's go on :

    I think Dilla could take it. His influence on pretty much every single producer that came out after him is pretty noble. And creativity, IMO, he got that locked down. But, as you said, one can't deny RZA.

    I don't think Pete Rock or DJ Premiere could take the spot. After some years, with all due respect, I really think DJ Premier is a very talented producer, but not enough creativity to be called GOAT. One helluvah producer, tho, but nah.

    Same for Dr. Dre. Blaze ? Nah. Alchemist ? Maybe later, he still has future. And Q-Tip ... Man, I have so much respect for Q-Tip ...

    I think that I wouldn't be mad if one picked Dilla, Q-Tip or RZA ... I myself would probably pick Dilla or Tip ...

    Well, I didn't pick one, but you did start a conversatoin. And, to keep it going :

    Who is the most promising producer in the game right now ?

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  2. * relizes someone will say Kanye and ruin the fun of the question for me *

    * regrets last question *

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  3. wow.. most promising in the game? i have to say, and not to rain on your parade, but i think when kanye's finished, he's gonna achieve levels that we can't even fathom right now. let's be real.. dude has heat for days. i hate to say it too, but kanye is gonna end up with a catalog that will make him on of the greats. and i'm not talking about dr. dre great, i'm talking prince and mj great.

    *takes off stan hat*

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  4. my homie knowrisk will be quick to point out q-tip. and rightly so.. to think of all the tribe's shit, and then to do some of the stuff he did with mobb deep early on? that's versatility man.

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  5. * completely avoids the Kanye-expected answer *

    I'm sayin', man ... Q-Tip has history ...

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  6. can u think of someone who is more promising than kanye right now?

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  7. because, i really didnt WANNA pick him.. but it's undeniable.

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  8. * plays Q-Tip - Dance On Glass *

    And he still has it ...

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  9. Alchemist is waayyy better than Just Blaze and Kanye. It's not even close. I'd take them and Dre off and throw up Bomb Squad, Large Pro, and Marley. They HAVE to be on the list.

    In regards to Premo and Pete Rock they have waaayyy more classics than Madlib and Dilla. And when's the last time you heard a weak Pete Rock track? Yessir is one of the illest beats I've heard in a while. Just the Gangstarr, Group Home, and Jeru albums alone trump Dilla. Dilla was ill but nah.

    Rza is the GOAT. Point blank period. After that it's a toss up. I love all those producers no homo...

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  10. you really could make a case for any of the guys on that list.. but "you cocker spaniel dogs, can't FUCK with my catalog" (c) rza

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  11. Kanue has made like one good beat in two years. Who isn't better than Kanye?

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  12. Agreed on Bomb Squad having th be on the list.

    Lemme pick a random name so you could take that one out ... Huh, let's say Kanye ...

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  13. Who isn't better than Kanye?

    ^

    *raises hand*
    i'm not. but shit, i just beatbox. poorly. lol

    but c'mon.. one hot beat in 2 years?
    "run this town".."live fast die young" "make her say" "power"

    i just think he's set the bar kinda high for himself, but he still has heaters. that being said, i didn't like the shit on TML or 808's.. i tihnk GAJ will restore your faith, HL

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  14. Live Fast and Die Young is all I'll give you. The rest is weak. Alchemist's Surgical Gloves, of the Microphone joint with Slaughterhouse is killing that. Or even the Premo and Just Blaze joints on Fat Joe's album. Kanye fell off after Late Registation IMO.

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  15. i will give you that "surgical gloves" was prob my fave beat from 09.. that shit is ridiculous. in fact

    *youtubes surgical gloves*

    *cooks crack*

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  16. Yeah I hope GAJ will be dope too. But between BP3, 808's, and Graduation, I still have doubts.

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  17. if good ass job isn't the best album of 2010, kanye will not be pleased. the list of collaborators is what has me excited..

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  18. i suppose that madlib is more of my personal favorites than anything else. i should have swapped him for the bomb squad.

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  19. Madlib and Dilla are two of my personal favorites as well. I always thought Madlib was the better producer though. He was killing Dilla on Champion Sound.

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  20. @Hl
    i used to think madlib>dilla, but my dude hipped me to this 3 disk comp called "dilla beats 05" or some random shit. it was literally like 78 tracks. all dope. like ...literally all of them. i switched sides that day (no homo)

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  21. " i switched sides that day (no homo) "

    lol ...

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  22. Think about this though. Madvilliany is better produced than any Dilla project, and Madlib renegaded Dilla on the beats for Champion Sound. No way Dilla is better IMO.

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  23. i can't even factor madvillain into normal hip hop discussions, because my unabashed stannery takes over. i love that album more than most people. so.. i can't even have a serious convo about it, because i am so biased.

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  24. that's a great point though...

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  25. My fav has changed throughout the years. Started off with Ced Gee from Ultramagnetic Mc's. He actually produced A LOT of Criminal Minded yet never got credit for it.

    Then it switched to Marley Marl. With all his work with the Juice Crew (Roxanne Shante, Craig G, Masta Ace, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap, Biz Markie) & LL Cool J. Always felt he saved his best beats for LL. Anyway......

    Then it swithced to Pete Rock. Who arguably produced the best song of ALL TIME T.R.O.Y. There was a time where you weren't SHIT unless you had a Pete Rock remix. He changed the whole sound of the music.

    Then it was Jay Dee(Dilla) with his Neo Soul sound. I wasn't really into his posthumous stuff. *Side note* If all these artists think he was so great, then why didn't they try and work with him while he was ALIVE? Not like he's some "new jack". He's been around since the 90's. Hmmmmm

    But NOW it's Q-Tip. Why? When I actually thought about it, he's produced more UNIVERSALLY classic albums, with the Tribe, than ALL THE REST. He DISCOVERED Jay Dee. His latest album was DOPE. And he's been around BEFORE most of the producers and is STILL doing dope music long after most of them have fell off. He also did tracks on two other UNIVERSALLY classic albums..Illmatic & The Infamous. Lastly.....Pete Rock was Marly Marl influenced. Jay Dee was Pete Rock influenced. But Q-Tip had a UNIQUE sound that didn't sound similar to ANY other producer. I could actually go on and on like Erykah Badu, but this is getting long winded! *wink*

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  26. Madlib & Dilla are BOTH "sons" of the Pete Rock sound.

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  27. Cosign Q-Tip. The first three Tribe albums, Illmatic, and The Infamous are five of the greatest albums of all time. His new album was incredible, and plus he produced Crooklyn Dodgers. With that said Rza still has more classics.

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  28. I would say they're son of the Pete Rock sound but not just him. Remember when Madlib remade Fat Pockets? DITC has to be represented on a top list...

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  29. @knowrisk

    great case made for tip..

    actually, that was a pretty thorough comment.. you should be a "team member" on my blog. oh wait...

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  30. Rza was doing his thing but he had "help". Help as in a bunch of DOPE MC's and karate flicks. Q-Tip was BEFORE RZA and making GREAT music AFTER RZA. RZA is basically average now. Sad but true. Probably a better MC than he is a producer. True story

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  31. can anyone refute my claim that kanye has the most promise of today's producers?

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  32. Do we have to put an * by Kanye and Marley Marl's names cause they didn't produce everything themselves?

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  33. . Probably a better MC than he is a producer

    ^
    no. see "new wu"
    rza still has it. he just is too busy scoring films for tarantino. and really, can you fault him for that?

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  34. DITC had some dope music (was just listening to Soul Clap yesterday).

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  35. " he's been around BEFORE most of the producers and is STILL doing dope music long after most of them have fell off. "

    That's all I'm sayin'.

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  36. @HL
    didn't realize you had such disdain for kanye.

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  37. " he's been around BEFORE most of the producers and is STILL doing dope music long after most of them have fell off. "

    ^
    this cannot be debated. i'll give you that.

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  38. Rza produced more classics than Q-Tip though. Song for song Tip can't compete. In a beat battle 4th Chamber is smashing ANY producer.

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  39. @Abortatron
    I'd say Kanye or Just Blaze. I probably look forward to hearing a Just Blaze track and little more than a Kanye track right now. But it's close.

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  40. AGAIN....RZA had "help". Put Phife Dogg over RZA beats and they don't sound so classic. hmmmmmm lol

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  41. Word Rza produced 3 of the best tracks on CL2. Only Dilla out did Rza on that album.

    I don't have nothing against Ye'. He just hasn't produced much I've liked in a while.

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  42. AGAIN....RZA had "help". Put Phife Dogg over RZA beats and they don't sound so classic. hmmmmmm lol

    ^
    talking beats only though.
    to co-sign HL.
    4th chamber>>>>>>>>
    probably top5 beat ever

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  43. Based on where this discussion is heading, on a related topic, Dilla, Q-Tip and RZA might jus' be the Top 3 DOA Producers.

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  44. i'm glad dr. dre has not come up in this discussion at all.

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  45. " i'm glad dr. dre has not come up in this discussion at all. "

    I wish I could say the same 'bout Kanye. No shots whatsoever, tho.

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  46. lol So Rza's beats aren't dope without raps? You can just listen to the instrumentals. Rza's catalog is stronger IMO.

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  47. Hard to "ignore" the MC's on RZA's tracks cause he had arguably some of the best MC's EVER rhyming on them. And DEFINITELY some of the best of that era.

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  48. I wish I could say the same 'bout Kanye.

    ^
    you brought him up lol

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  49. "iron man be sippin rum outta stanley cups"

    i saw gfk live, and he spit his verse from 4th chamber.. shit was LIVE.

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  50. Peace yall for real this time. I don't to debate shit like this in real life anymore. Feels like high school again. Peace...

    BTW Q-Tip is one of the greatest...

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  51. Peace, hl. Was a nice debate, tho.

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  52. @HL....Don't get me wrong, RZA had dope stuff. And it was mad original. But I could EASILY reproduce that "Wu Sound" by sampling a Portis Head album and dig up some classic karate flicks. I've actually done it before to prove a point to someone.

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  53. so to tally it up..

    rza is the GOAT according to me and HL

    tip is the goat according to hopp and knowrisk?

    hmm..

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  54. " rza is the GOAT according to me and HL

    tip is the goat according to hopp and knowrisk? "

    You have to agree, tho, that eithe one of these is a pretty accurate choice.

    Like you said, what if someone came here debating to death that Dre is GOAT ? At least we're debating greatests here.

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  55. where are all the dilla stans at? lol..

    i didn't see it going tip vs rza..

    tomorrow after work ,i think i will post the best from both of them and have a "round 2"..

    @knowrisk- you should compile your 5 best q-tip beats.. i'll handle the rza side..

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  56. " i didn't see it going tip vs rza.. "

    I seriously thought it'd go Dilla x Premier ...

    Shit, what did I know, huh ?

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  57. i didnt know u were such a tip supporter, hopp.
    i knew that would be knowrisk's choice..
    no one even mentioned premiere in a positive light..

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  58. i tihnk i'm gonna let this post breathe for awhile.. i like the idea of a round 2.. and i'd like to see if anyone else weighs in, and maybe a 3rd producer will make his way into the convo.. if anyone wants to submit a few beats from their GOAT, leave them in the comments, and i'll get a post together tomorrow for round 2..

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  59. I'm the last of a dyin' breed, sir ...

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  60. Peace. See ? I told you the Internet was the right place to fix the problem ...

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  61. word hopp.. haha.. drop a couple of your favorite q-tip beats in the c-section if you want..

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  62. Kanyeforlife

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  63. lol @ that "kanye for life" being posted anonymously

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  64. I'm really glad my internet was shut off while this conversation was going on. I don't think I can bring myself to read it, either.

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